Q: Five years since the last album - why the long gap?

Tricky: I had done a lot of music in a short period of time. More than most artists. This is I think my 8th or 9th album. I was bringing out an album every year. So it was Maxinquaye, Nearly God, Pre-Millennium Tension, Angels With Dirty Faces, Blowback, Vulnerable - and there´s something missing in there. So this is probably my 8th album. It ain´t like I took too long. I think I had worked too fast. And it caught up with me and just fucked me up, basically. It just caught me up and I was, like, I had no interest in it any more.

Q: You were fed up with all music?

Tricky: Yeah. It seemed like my life was a cycle - you do an album, you do the press, you tour, and then it´s Xmas. And you´re life´s going (claps hands). And, erm, it was making me like - cause you know I had problems with this thing called Candida, and I was getting to grips with that, but being so busy was making me more sick. It started affecting me mentally - not like going insane or paranoid, but I could feel my brain, it was under stress.

Q: It must have sapped your energy.

Tricky: Yeah! Yeah! And it was starting to affect my mind. That scared me a little bit. All of a sudden I just stopped recording one day. And then I just started hanging out - I´ve done club things before, but one day a week, two days a week. Well, now I was going to clubs four or five days a week. Just going there and just being one of the crowd. And being. As the years went by I got less and less noticed. And then I was hanging out in The Bronx where people didn´t really know who I was. And it was like, you realise you miss being one of the crowd. Know what I mean. Instead of walking into a club and people - you feel the whispers and you hear "that´s Tricky", instead of that just walking into a club with four or five of my friends and being able to sit against a wall and no one notice, me, who I am, know what I´m doing, just - one of the crowd. And that is kind of - it sounds kind of strange, but to lose that feeling is hardcore. Anonymity is ? you lose that, pfft, that is a weight on the brain, if you lose all your anonymity. That is kind of hardcore.

Q: So it was vital for you to get your anonymity back?

Tricky : Yeah. And if you had asked me that years ago, like, what would be an important thing to lose, there´s no way I would have said that. Or even thought of it. Cause when you have anonymity you don?t think anything of it. But if you lose it it´s - it´s like being in a goldfish bowl, everybody?s staring at you.

Q: And every move you make is being criticised.

T: Criticised!

Q: Taken out of context.

T: You know - I live in L.A. at the moment, in LA and New York when it´s my birthday they announce it, play music, it´s like - I don´t know if I want everybody to know it´s my birthday! It´s like - you know what I mean. For my birthday, or what I did two months ago, it´s, like, a bit hardcore, know what I mean!

Q: Getting back the anonymity gave you back the pleasure in making music - is that how it went?

Tricky: Yeah! I was hanging out with this guy called Rod, he´s on the album, actually. We´d go to clubs. Jamaican guy, and he started Djing, chatting over a track in a club, and I´d be doing vocals. And we were just doing it, like, to instrumentals in a club. Just kind a - smoking, and a few drinks and just vibing. We´d do that every time we´d go out, we´d just vibe. And we´d go out every night. So sometimes we´d go to a bar and we´d be vibing over a track. Know what I mean? Whether it was a pop track or whatever. It was like being a kid again. You´re just chatting, and (making noises), and then we did that for about three years! Just go out, travelling, Miami, Vegas, and we even got up on peoples´shows. Like in Vegas. Artists we didn´t even know. Just jump on stage and doing a rhyming shit. And people didn´t know who the fuck I was. Know what I mean. In the crowd. This is like how I started again. I didn´t do this for fame or money. I did this cause I wanted people to hear me on the street. You wanna be known as GOOD. You wanna be known for having a TALENT. So I was like going way back again. It was kind of fun. It put the fun back into. By the time we finished hanging out for those years it was, like, ahh! I wanna make a record now! I WANNA! Know what I mean? It´s like my friend used to say, a little bit of competition keeps you in condition. As a rapper you wanna be the best. And all of a sudden - yeah! This music´s shit! I´ll make a better album than that. The Punk rock attitude. The fuck you attitude. Punk Rock. Now it´s like, yeah, I´m gonna do an album and I´m gonna blow them all up. It gives you a bit of your energy back.

Q: How did these people react when you jumped on stage, the bands you jumped on stage with?

Tricky: We did Vegas and - what are they called, Slash´s new band?

Q: Velvet Revolver.

T: It wasn´t them, but the singer from Velvet Revolver.

Q: Scott Wieland.

Tricky: Scott Wieland. We jumped on his stage. He was doing something with his band in Vegas and we jumped on there, and, fucking, like DJs would go to a club and put their headphones and plug it into the microphone socket, and do it through the headphones this shit, and there might be two or three people in there but it was just for us.

Q: How did they react when you just wandered on stage?

Tricky: Ahm - well, usually, very - it´s more about me and Rod having a laugh, you know, like kids. So we?d not even notice people. Just me and him looking at each other. And then throw the mikes down and chase some girls. So it was kinda mad partying ? fun, a good release.

Q: This album is a lot more playful than you?ve been for a long time. The first three tracks, each one is completely different. Totally different kinds of atmosphere. Fair comment?

Tricky: Yeah, yeah! It´s like, with this album for the first - I don´t regret anything I´ve ever done, know what I mean. And some people say "Angels" was my worst album. Now, I´ve got a lot of people "Angels" is their favourite album. I don´t understand that. Or "Pre-Millennium" - cause some of that stuff, I don´t even get it any more. I don´t feel like that any more, so I don´t understand it. But some of my family - that´s their favourite albums. Now, I would think "Blowback" or "Maxinquaye" or "Vulnerable", the obvious ones. So it´s like - with this album I had time to THINK. Realise: you know, you´re lucky as a musician. You could do anything you want! You can create anything you want and say: this is - I´ve got my name on it. Listen to this! What a great opportunity! How many people can do whatever they want! It´s very few. So you have a responsibility as an artist, just to do something - that maybe even you don´t understand.

Q: I really like this attitude - 95% of music people nowadays seem to be concerned first and foremost with marketing concepts. And that´s what they´re doing - they´re not doing the artistic thing, exploring.

Tricky: Yeah! And what a waste of an opportunity! Like - if someone said you can do anything you want, not many people get that opportunity. So it´s like - that´s like a kid in a store. If you say to me, I sign you, I´ll play for your album, and you can make music - that´s like you´ve got to have fun. You´ve got to do fucking everything! In those fucking 12 or 13 tracks you wanna live a lifetime! So I´m like - I don´t take it for granted, my job. I´m a very lucky guy to be able to do this. And every day I wake up feeling I´m blessed. So I don´t take that for granted, there´s no way I´m gonna sleep on that and go: "I´m a pop star, I´m Tricky, I´m retiring?" No. I´m lucky to be doing this. So I have a responsibility. You know what I mean. Like you have a responsibility to fucking LIVE LIFE, man! It´s like, you can just live through - how many people get to live through another world? Like I get to live a different life through music. You can´t have that much of a gift and not do something with it.

Q: You haven´t always felt like that, have you? Your condition - candida - got you down?

Tricky: No, I didn´t always feel like that. First of all I felt I was very lucky, I shouldn´t be here - I´m very lucky. Then I felt very misread, then I felt suffocated, know what I mean? Now I´ve had time to sit down and think: this is a - I´ve always loved life. But this is a great, great opportunity. Especially when you see the way music has gone now. Like, it´s different to when I first came out. The way music is now just a total corporate - it´s run by bankers and accountants. It´s a great time to bring out a record and say something. Cause to be honest with you - there´s bands I like, but no one´s really saying anything. Or doing anything which is really making any difference. I´m not saying - there´s bands like their fans probably love them as much as any artist ever come before them, or more, I don´t know, but I think really it´s a good time to do something real and honest, and stand behind it.

Q: You still have you your studio in Los Angeles - and anybody you meet you take them in and let them sing?

Tricky: Anybody, yeah! Yeah. If I meet someone and they´re cool - it´s more important someone´s a good person than a talent. Lucky enough I meet good people with talent, but most people it´s like, I talk to them and say, and I´d be getting on with someone real cool, and really getting a good vibe from them, and they tell me they do vocals, and I say: come in! But if you´re a dick and you might be the most talented guy in the world, you ain´t gonna come in and do a vocal with me! So it´s mostly just meeting good people and thinking, that´s a sweet kid, or that´s a real cool girl, or that´s a real nice guy, and I go: come to my house and we do a track.

Q: Did you - the press release says something about one of the singers on the new album, Joseph, that you don´t know where he is. Have you found him now?

Tricky: No, but that´s why I call the track "Joseph". I met him, he was kind of a semi-busker, used to play for money and shit, and worked in an ice cream thing, Hass Hag or whatever they´re called, and erm, after we did the track - cause that track is three years old, maybe four, and he disappeared. So I called that track "Joseph", cause I hope that if it comes out he´s gonna find me. Cause - his girl was a fan of my music. He didn´t really know about my music. But his girl was a big fan who introduced him and then he bumped into me, and goes, he´s from somewhere like North Carolina, I think, and he goes, it´s crazy, my girl goes on about you, and I just bump into you in the street! We started talking and I said, come round my house. I wrote this song for him, boomph, we did it, and then I lost touch with him. So hopefully now he´s gonna see this somewhere, or his girlfriend is gonna see it, and he´ll get in touch with me. Cause he should be singing. He should be on records, doing stuff.

Q: Who are the women singing on the album? There´s two or three, isn´t there?

Tricky: There´s one called Veronica, there´s a girl called Lavna, and there´s a girl called Alex Mills. And there´s a girl called Hasdis. She´s Icelandic.

Q: And they´re also just friends who dropped by?

Tricky: Yeah. One of them, Lavna, we used to see each other. Veronica is a friend - I used to see one of her friends. Hasdis, I heard her voice on a CD - Emily Taylor. The girl who runs The Dairy Studio (in Brixton) sent me her CD, a 4-track CD. And Alex Mills is on my label, Brown Punk.

Q: I was gonna ask you about that - how´s Brown Punk, your own record label, doing?

Tricky: We´re gonna be launching next year. I´ve done a movie, I´ve directed a movie which I´m just finishing. Like - I finished it - it´s two years old, I´ve lived with it, I didn´t like it, so I´m just finishing the editing now. I´ve got another two weeks editing and then that´s gonna be finished. I´m gonna bring that out to launch the label. Because the movie has got the artists from the label in the movie.

Q: Is it the story of the label?

Tricky: Well, it´s like, basically I took twelve tracks of these artists and took the words and made them into a script. So it goes from real live to lipsync. But not into a song. The lyrics are part of the dialogue. So all the artists are in the movie, and it´s a movie about basically what people are willing to do to make a record. What I have to do to set up a label. Stuff like that.


Q: You´ve had this label for a long time, or rather, you´ve been talking about it for a long time. Has the experience of setting up a label been different than you expected it?

Tricky: I didn´t know it was gonna be this hard! Whoa! I thought it was as easy as getting the artists and putting them out. It´s inspiring for me. The only music I listen to is the music on Brown Punk. And I don´t get involved. I don´t A&R. I don´t produce any of them. It´s all their own stuff. I don´t get involved. I could say: "I don´t like that", but I don´t think it would really matter, and I never actually do that. And some of the albums, even the tracks I don´t like seem like they have to be there anyway.

Q: Why start a label and then not get involved?

Tricky: I´m supposed to give them a vehicle. And if I like what you do already why change it? Cause I´m not gonna sign something I don´t like. I have to love it to sign it. If I love something I´m a fan. As a fan I can´t really go and tell them what to do. You know. This is what they do. If I could do it better I´d be doing what they´re doing. So there´s no need to A&R it. And even if there is a couple of tracks on an album that I don´t like, who am I to say? That might be just my taste. There might be a million other people out there who do like it. You sign people for their talent, and then you let them do their thing. This is what Chris Blackwell did to me. Signed me and let me do whatever I wanted. Like, I don´t think Chris likes everything I´ve got out. I´m sure he doesn´t. But I never heard him say "you can´t put that out". So it´s like I´m just a vehicle really. I`ll use my name, but apart from that you´ve got to do your thing.

Q: Who´s on the label now?

Tricky: I´ve got a band called The Dirty. I´ve got Face who was in So Solid Crew. I´ve got a girl called Alex Mills. A girl called Kira, and The Gospel. I´ve got my little brother and his band called BP. They´re little young ´uns. Little young rappers, 23. I´ve got a band called Engine from Scotland. Who else? I think that´s it. It´s about eight, nine.

Q: A lot of lyrics on the album deal with youth, with Bristol. Being away from Britain most of the year - has your perspective on how you grew up changed from this distance?

Tricky: No. No. I still think the same. But I look at things a little differently. Like, I realise these kids are a lot more fucking violent then we ever were. So I can see the changes. But my perspective hasn´t changed. It´s still England. It´s still England. It´s still got an English vibe about it. And it doesn´t seem much different to when I grew up, except they´re a little bit more hardcore now, the kids. And it´s getting a little bit more segregated. It´s getting a little bit more black and white. When I was growing up it wasn´t so much of that. It was more of a multi-cultural thing.

Q: That was the beauty of your generation, wasn´t it, early 80s when people suddenly realised that there was so much to exchange between all the different cultures that were around you in Britain at the time.

Tricky: Yeah! And we seem to be leaving that now for some reason. It´s like - now I´m starting to see groups of black kids, groups of white kids, which I don´t think suits England. Cause England is not about that. So that´s kind of strange. I don´t know where that´s gonna lead to.

Q: Where do you think it comes from?

Tricky: I think it comes from America. And - like - if you look at the biggest music over here, or the biggest music in the world is Hip-Hop right now. The biggest movers in music at the moment are American. So I think - and the politics, we follow American politics. Know what I mean? Specially Blair. So maybe through politics, movies, music - I don´t know. It´s hard to explain. It´´s really weird. But it definitely wasn´t like this when I was growing up. It definitely wasn´t like this.

Q: And the violence, as you said. It´s worrying.

Tricky: Yeah. People used to have punch-ups, now they have gun battles. Know what I mean? They´re a lot more full on then us. A lot more full on. But in a way I think they have less than my generation. We had things like - when The Specials came out, that took pressure off off me. It was, like, a band I was really into. A youth culture I was really into. They way we dressed. Hip-Hop was like that when it first came out. But now not really so much. So really these kids have nothing except going for money (snips finger). Know what I mean. They´ve got a lot less. And cause they´re growing up so fast now, d´ya know what, it´s like - we didn´t need certain things when we were 15. Now when you´re 15, these kids are like men. So I think they´ve got a lot less than we did.

Q: It´s an ironic, isn´t it. "Respect" has been the big word around for a while. But in fact it´s all about material things. On the other hand, you can´t create anything if you don´t have respect for the people around you. You can´t exchange ideas and things without respect. So, in fact, because it is so obsessed with material things, "respect" in the genuine sense has been lost for the new generation.

Tricky: Oh, yes, totally! It´s like, erm, it´s totally - when I was growing up if someone was older than you, even if you were a tough guy, you gave them respect. Now, they don´t give a fuck. You could be out there as a man, a couple of 15 year olds will stab you up. Shoot you up. It´s a total different thing. We were taught to respect your elders. My grandmother always taught me: respect your elders. That was a big thing when I was growing up, that was a big part of the culture. Don´t tell tales, and respect your elders. That was a BIG part of growing up. Now I don´t think there is that. I don´t think people are teaching that now. So I could be walking down the street, and a 16 year old kid will look at me, and will fight me in the street. It´s a total different - I´m not saying kids weren´t like that when we were younger, kids where I come from used to fight when they were 15, they´d fight men. But it was in a different way. And a different attitude. It´s the 15 year old kid who´s bringing it now - not the 15 year old kid who´s standing up for himself and he fights a man cause he´s standing up for himself. The first time I see one of my boys fight a man my boy was 15, but the guy jumped out of a car on him to fight him, so he had to. But now you´ve got a 15 year old kid pushing up on someone who´s a lot older than them. It´s a totally different mentality. It´s very full on. These kids are very full on. And quick to violence.

Q: Do you get any aggro these days, the way you dress and look?

Tricky: Nah, nah! Nah. It´s like, erm, I think I look strange enough that people leave me alone, to a certain extent. So - nah, I get left alone, yeah.

Q: And Los Angeles is comfortable for you to live?

Tricky: Yeah yeah. But it?s a dangerous place, you know. You can get into problems there. But I just stay low-key. And I think it´s when you´re involved with something that you have problems. My little brother, they´re in beef all the time. Cause they´re living in a neighbourhood, you step on toes. I travel so much - I live in a neighbourhood where if you step on peoples´ toes there´s pressure - but because I move around so much it doesn´t affect me.

Q: To go back briefly to what you were saying before - do you think Hip-Hop has sold its audience down the river in a way, that so many artists preach violence and purely materialistic values?

Tricky: Yeah, and it´s not like - I can understand rappers talking about their environment, so you can´t censor anything. And like NWA when they first came out. But when it becomes pop culture, and it´s not about your environment but it´s about making money, I think it gets a bit weird then. I see Hip-Hop as Blues was, a struggling people´s music. Like Reggae. It comes out of suffering. Now it´s a corporate venture. So now you´ve got a corporation talking to you instead of a struggling kid. Or a guy who comes from a hard environment. So now you have corporate rappers. So to me it´s kind of - a lot of it has lost its way a little bit. It´s like having corporate America rapping to you. I´m not interested in corporate America. I wanna hear - that´s why I like people like Juvenile a few years back talking about how New Orleans was a few years ago, hurricane Katrina, and what it was like, living through that. It´s like - that´s what I wanna hear. I?m not really interested in how many cars you´ve got or how much draw you´ve got. That doesn´t really fascinate me.

Q: Do you follow what´s going on with Reggae still?

Tricky: Yeah, I listen to a lot of Dancehall stuff. Like Babysham´s just been getting a lot of airplay with "Ghetto Story" That song´s just like wicked. I always get mix-tapes of Reggae. Reggae to me is music that´s stayed pure. I only listen to Dancehall. I don´t like soft reggae or lovers rock. But Dancehall to me still is the newest music. They still use sounds that no one else would use. And they take risk, and there´s still no laws with Ragga. After all these years, it´s still new music.

Q: You with your liberal attitudes to sex - doesn´t the homophobic attitude put you off?

Tricky: Erm - you know what? Everybody´s gonna get pissed off about something, whether it´s religion, or fucking homophobia or racism. I just don´t get involved. I don´t even wanna think about any of it cause I don´t wanna get weighed down by any of it. There´s always gonna be some group of people that´s gonna be pissed off about something. As long as I´m not in that group of any of these people I´ll pretend it doesn´t exists. To me, racism don´t exist. Homophobia don´t exist. Dadada doesn´t exist. I just pretend it´s not here. Any of it. Wars over religion! I just refuse to believe it´s real. So it don´t really affect me. Like I don´t see racism. Homophobia. Cause I don´t notice it. Cause I´m not gonna bother to be on that wavelength. To me it´s all words. Cause that´s all it is at the end of the day. Words.

Q: It´s just when I listen to someone like Sizzla going off on one of his rants, I become aware that I´m at the opposite end of the line from him, he means people like me!

Tricky: Yeah. My dad´s Jamaican, he had a very hardcore upbringing. But I just don´t get affected by peoples´ words. It´s like I don´t wanna get involved. To even notice it, it means I get involved. So I just try and stay - I try and hover away from everything. I´m just not interested in the racism, homophobia, wars - so I just kind of keep my mind somewhere totally else. So it don´t affect me. I don´t wanna be bogged down with racism, homophobia, war, dadada. I don´t want it to bog me down. The only way to do that is to pretend it doesn´t exist.

Q: Rise above it, in other words.

Tricky: Yeah.

Q: So, apart from Babycham´s new one, who should I check out in reggae?

Tricky: Ward 21, pfft! Aren´t they fucking ridiculous! And a girl called - really incredible, Dancehall, can´t remember her name. Something like Ria. Incredible. She´s got a couple of singles on VP. "Shaking Your Body". But I´d just go and get Mixtapes.


Q: I Used to go down to Daddy Koo in Berwick Street, but it´s closed down.

Tricky: Yeah. Times are a´changing, man. Times are a´changing. It´s crazy, man. The fun of music is leaving it slowly but surely.

Q: It´s kind of going elsewhere. On one hand you have the music business, it´s gigantic, and it´s got its CDs in the shops. On the other you have all these people making music for the right reasons - you have to search out their records, but they are there, and there´s so much of that.

Tricky: Yeah. Yeah. It´s - the little things. Searching for records and stuff, and making compilation albums on cassette. It´s kind of nice. I kinda miss some of those things.

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